Good morning.
First of all, thanks to Zen Lill for bringing forth such interesting subjects about relationships. And thanks to ZL, Robert and the readers who have commented on the subject, adding such excitement to the blog banter these past two days.
The topic has inspired my write this morning. And it has hit me on so many different levels as I compare what has been expressed to what I have experienced in my own life, and those around me. I don’t know anything about the percentages discussed. As I said, I can only go by my own experiences, my family life, and what I hear from my girlfriends, their husbands, and the men in my life.
However, as far as divorces are concerned, I have to agree with Robert, that it is the men who initiate divorce more than women. I don’t personally have too many friends that have gone through the divorce process, but I can tell you that I have witnessed the divorce of many of my parents’ friends, as I grew up, and it has been predominately the men who have done the walking, and most of the time they have a younger woman attached to their arm. Regardless of the years that the wife has given up to raise his children and support his career. He finally makes it with her support, and all of a sudden he is king of the household gathering his harem on the side. Once again, I am not referring to all men, but many have chosen this route.
I also agree that men want to be taken care of. I grew up with my father not participating in my younger years hardly at all. He was too busy livng out his artistic career, and playing tennis with his buddies. My mother did everything in the house and cared for him in every way. He refused to ever clean the house, help with the dishes, or do anything domestic. And when after many years they finally divorced, my father barely knew how to cook anything but pasta. His mother did everything for him when he was growing up and my mother took over that roll when they got married. Sound good to me - “Hell, I want a wife too.” But unless I go lesbo, that just isn’t going to happen.
Women need to get a clue and stop perpetuating this cycle that does us no good. As Madaline says, “Woman up.”
On a side note, and I may have blogged this before, but it is worth repeating: It reminds me of a time about 10 years ago. A male friend of mine was trying to encourage me to have children explaining to me how my priorities would change when I did. I retorted, “I like my life. I don’t want my priorities to change. Did yours change? No. You’re still mountain biking every weekend with the guys”. I sat and watched him take another sip of a beer, smiling away, while his wife sat in the corner breast feeding their three-month old, with their other two-year old pulling at her leg.
So back to divorce. When a woman gets to the point in her life where she doesn’t want to do everything anymore, when she’s tired of being the maid or the mommy to full grown men….after she has been doing it her whole life, yeah…I can understand why the man would get a bit pissy from her change that is affecting his life…why he might want a divorce. He’s use to being taken care of, and when all of a sudden he finds that he has to do some things for himself, the mind begins to think, and the little head takes over…. “I think I’ll find myself another woman who will take care of me. Yeah, that’s what I’ll do.” He usually ends up with a younger woman until she wakes up, and then he’s off deep in the hunt again. So, it is no surprise that many older women are living at the poverty level, while the man continues to hunt ‘n peck.
Like Robert says, there isn’t too much a man will put up with when they’re used to getting it good and knowing that there will always be someone else who will give them what they want, should the good go south at home. Women, on the other hand will put up with tons of crap before they decide to leave. I don’t know any men that are absolutely miserable in their marriage but I know quite a few women who are. And yet the remain married, in spite of the fact that they have caught their husbands with their pants down, lying and cheating, and hitting on some of their closest friends. And yet nothing is said. This is in a group that has known each other for years and the money is free flowing….as well as the pasted on public smiles that all is grand - “We’re rich aren’t we? We should be happy.” I no longer hang with this group much - Doug and I were always the outsiders, yet I can’t tell you how many conversations I had where they expressed their unhappiness and how they envied our relationship….how they would give up the riches just to have their husbands pay a little attention to them. Sad, but even sadder that the women put up with it…that they are choosing to stay, when they don’t have to.
So maybe these men aren’t asking for divorces, but why would they? They flirt openly, they cheat, they blatantly lie, and their wives still remain loyal. They have a for sure thing at home and whatever they want on the side. They are having their cake and eating it too. If I were them, I wouldn’t get divorced either.
As far as men (90%) not wanting to get married. ZL, that seems way high to me. I know quite a few women who have turned men down for marriage two and three times, and I’m not talking from the same man. And I definitely think that the more financially independent a woman is these days, the more she is opting out of marriage. Women aren’t feeling the need nor do they feel they have to especially when she knows she doesn’t have to rely on him financially.
And in my own experiences with relationships, although I have not had more than one man drop down-to-his-knee proposing marriage, the men that I have had, intimate relationships with, were the ones that initiated the subject of marriage, not me. In my last relationship, pre-marriage to Doug, he practically begged me to marry him when I decided to finally end it for good. When I finally fucked someone other than him, he went berserk. Knowing him as well as I did, I thought he would be okay with it, but he wasn’t - oops - bad move. I didn’t get it then, but years later I finally did. He was no longer in control. He no longer owned this thing between my legs. So Robert, you’re right. Men can fuck around, but the minute they know someone else is in their stuff, and they’re not the one in control, they can’t take it.
Even in regards to Doug, and I’m sure he won’t mind me posting this, he initiated marriage. I had no idea he was going to propose. And I kept putting the marriage date off, once I said ‘yes’. I wasn’t ready, and quite frankly, I wanted him to get his life together. ( Those weren’t exactly the words I used, but I am being kind here, and he knows it :)
But Robert, what really struck a cord for me most out of your enlightening post was your part about women only having one relationship at a time: mini marriages. It wasn’t an ‘Aha!” moment for me. I have known since I got older that I limited my choices when I was younger. That I did not exercise my rights to choose like I could have. The ‘Aha!” moment for me was how you articulated the benefit of dating more than one man at a time, that I was serious about. I knew that I was missing something from my lack of choices when I was younger, I just didn’t know what it was nor could I put it into words or take it to the level that you have.
So that being said, you are so correct. That was me. That was my life. I have been in mini marriages ever since I learned how to spread these thighs, and commit myself to one. I remember thinking that when I finally got married it was no different than what I had been doing in every past relationship. I eased into it very naturally. But why wouldn’t I when I had been in mini marriages from day one?
In every mini marriage, loyal I was. I prided myself on being a one man woman. I liked being loyal. No one said I had to be but I liked it. I had plenty of chances to fool around but I chose not to. I liked the fact that a man demanded ownership over this, but I was foolish to think that meant that he would be loyal too. That is why, on the one hand, I am big on men keeping their little secrets to themselves. Unrealistic as it may be, for some to think that their man is loyal to only her…but then Ignorance can be blissful. Yet on the other hand, competition can spark up the bedroom.
But my biggest regret in relationships was that I didn’t date. And that was of no blame to my family. My mother always said that I was too young to be so serious with one boy. But I didn’t listen. I made commitments and when I no longer wanted to be in the relationship, I was the one who did the breaking up. I was never dumped. And there was always another one waiting in the wings.
I, unfortunately did not have the good advice to date more than one boy or even more than one man, at the same time, for that matter. But who knows if I would’ve listened anyhow. I loved having one boyfriend, and relished the thought that he only needed and desired me. Young, immature thoughts.
It wasn’t until I got much older that I wished that I had played the field a lot more. I can’t stress enough how I never made the choice…how I NEVER chose the person I wanted to date, or be in a relationship with. I was ALWAYS the chosen one.
Yes, there were some in between men that were very short lived, and sex was the draw there; nothing more. I knew that they were not relationship material for me, therefore I was never serious about them. But once again, they initiated the choosing of me. I still never chose them. The only choice I made was to not continue to the next level.
When I have spoken to my girlfriends about my past relationships, I have always said that if I could do it over, I would be the one to choose who I wanted to date. I would be the one who would go out for the hunt, so to speak. I have never felt that I took advantage of my opportunities to choose. Men in my life chose me. They always have. I would date them for awhile, not seeing anyone else of course, and then I would make a commitment if I wanted to go to the next level. My whole relationship life I was into mini marriages….one after the other, after the other, after the other. I was never without a boyfriend, therefore I could never make that comparison…I was never serious about two men at the same time. I could never say, ‘Show me why I should be with you instead of the other guy I’m dating? Show me why I should make a commitment to you instead of him?” ‘What do you have to offer me that is better than so ‘n so?”
I always gave myself to one man, one at a time. My choice of men were narrowed down to the ones who chose me. It is as simple as that. And all that being said, I conclude that I not only limited my options by only dating men that chose me, as I never did the choosing, but that I missed a growth opportunity by never dating two men that I was having more than casual sex with, at the same time.
Do I regret that I didn’t exercise my rights to choose? Yes. Do I regret the choice that I made in marrying Doug? No, not at all. He is a good man. My lack of not exercising my right to choose has nothing to do with him. Would I have still chosen Doug? Who knows how my choices would’ve affected my life, but I have no regret that I did. I have learned tremendously in my marriage, and I am grateful for the lessons.
Women have rights in this country, that many women in this world don’t. Read Anjali and Heba’s comments if you haven’t. My regret is that I didn’t exercise those rights…my right to choose, so that I could have learned and grown from the experience.
I feel I’m starting to be redundant, so I will end it here. I think you get my point.
Ok, I thought I was done. I wrote this last night. But like you Zen Lill and Anna, the topic was heavy on my mind and I woke up with thoughts of marriage infiltrating my sleep. I couldn’t get back to sleep, so although it is 4:18 am, I decided to get up and let the words flow from my mind to the computer, before they were lost. These are my thoughts:
Women romanticize marriage. Look at weddings. Weddings are designed for women, not men. The wedding is the big send off from the mini marriage into full marriage. Otherwise not much else changes. As I said, I noticed this when I got married. Maybe some women are disappointed, but they shouldn’t be. Getting married doesn’t change the relationship, it just seals whatever deal you made, consciously or unconsciously. Or, at least it gives you hope that the deal you made will be honored.
So, let’s take the romance out of marriage and break it down.
Women want a relationship so of course women want to get married. Marriage is designed for women to make the woman think that her man will honor his vows. And in some marriages the man will honor his vows. Not all men dishonor their vows and become unfaithful. But if a man is going to cheat in a mini marriage where he has told his woman, ‘Baby you’re the only one. I’m not seeing anyone else’, a piece of paper , and a big wedding where he takes his vows, is most likely not going to stop him from cheating in marriage.
If she is under the impression that he has been faithful their entire married life and discovers his infidelities, that is one thing. But a woman’s biggest mistake if she knows her man is cheating in a mini marriage, is thinking that he won’t in full marriage. Either of those happening is when disappointment can set in and the dream of marriage can be shattered. Everything else about a man should be no surprise to the woman. ( At least not outside of the norm - we’re not talking about pedophiles or serial killers here. ) A woman knows exactly what she is getting in to when she marries her man and there is no excuse to think that now he is married he is going to change.
Men want to stake their claim, so of course men want to get married too. Marriage is designed for men to take their meat off the market. For them, knowing how women desire relationships….knowing that women will be loyal in mini marriages, the wedding, the big send off into marriage, is just added insurance that they own their woman and she will remain loyal. And in most marriages it does. However, not all women are faithful. And as much as men want to dip into something different every now and then, it is not okay for their piece of meat to do the same. If a man has steak every night, every once in awhile he’s gonna want some beans. He may want to nibble on the beans once in awhile, and the beans may not mean that much to him, but make no mistake, he considers the steak his, lock, stock and barrel.
I conclude that most people don’t change. So my logic tells me that what you see in a mini marriage is most likely what you’re going to get in full marriage. Make an intelligent decision from the choices that you have, and as Robert pointed out, a way to do that is by honing your dating skills.
I’m almost done. I just have to say a few words to say in regards to the comment of women suppressing their natural sexual desires. This is really a question, and relates to Robert’s running list of the actions men take to prevent women from acting on their sexual needs.
If it was truly the case (women suppressing their natural sexual desires), why would men withhold something from women that they would naturally withhold from themselves?
Ok, I’m done.
Thanks again Zen Lill for bringing up such a charged topic. And thanks you Robert for confirming some of what I already knew, but couldn’t articulate or truly understand until I read your write. Obviously it struck a cord and I had much to say. Thanks for letting and getting out the word from a males point of view. Obviously your honesty has been much appreciated by the women readers. I hope that many single women will heed your advice.
Deepti, Fatima, Mehtarlam: My pleasure. I learned something too. :)
Readers: Comments? Anything to add? Blog me.
Gratefully your blog host,
michelle
Aka BABE: Your Bad Ass Bitch Editor
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